Here’s a question, does anyone feel winning the Champions League was tainted at all by the fact we played very similar in the two legs v Barca and the final v Bayern, as to how we did yesterday?
Bearing in mind I think we had better players in 2012 and that Bayern aren’t as good as this City team is.
I’m sure many of them didn’t like playing how we did on those nights but they stuck to the plan, they executed it well, we got lucky and it worked.
No, because the players worked their bollocks off and attacked when they needed to, plus the gaffer changed it when he needed to.
We had more shots against Barcelona in 2012 with ten men than yesterday, that should help illustrate that they were different.
That’s about the players, this lot haven’t got the personality and bollocks as most of the 2012 side. I can imagine that drives Conte mad (not that he hasn’t got his own flaws admittedly).
Having said that, this lot showed discipline and bottle against Barca the other day, so they’ve got more about them than we saw yesterday.
True, but by the same token the approach yesterday was very obviously different to Barcelona a couple of weeks ago - why was the ball played back constantly and not forward? That’s Conte’s instructions.
At one point I saw him shouting and pointing forward after the fckers gave it away yet again, so I don’t believe he wanted them to keep giving the ball away or not to go forward
I’m sure he didn’t want them to give it away, but what did he expect from that shape?
Of the current squad I reckon Conte has just 4-6 he rates and trusts. The whole squad is limited and limited further by Conte's refusal to chance players more than he feels he has to.
Trust is so important and I think Conte is an honest man, and he can’t pretend to trust players when he doesn’t believe he can. Some could argue it’s a flaw, but I’d argue a lot of great managers share that trait.
A major part of the problem is he doesn't appear to trust or rate any of his strikers!
This time last week, Morata was getting similar abuse to what Conte’s had this weekend. Again, he deserved some criticism for his display at Utd, but I thought a lot of that crossed the line as well. Too much hyperbole around nowadays for my liking and the media have a lot to answer for there
I do think the second half at OT and the full 90 mins at City deserve some serious abuse in fairness. Both are on the back of some proper shitty results and performances. Supporters feel pissed off we've gone from champions to outsiders to make the top 4. For me, the real blame is upstairs. I never saw a manager or players that never cared tbh. I don't see a manager trying to get the sack either. So many bad accusations being thrown about that are way ott.
Exactly mate, ultimately it all starts from the very top
You can't compare the games. You are talking about two legged knock outs and the most important Cup Final in our history compared to a league game against a team who may prove over time to be one of the best but so far should be rated as just another good team. We shouldn't be frightened of anybody especially in this current era where most of big clubs are no better than average compared to past sides.
I will also dispute that this City team are better than that Bayern team, they may prove better in time but they are nothing to be scared or to be shown an undue level respect.
Conte runaway from a fight on Sunday and there is no getting away from it
I think he’s honest enough to know that there’s no point in fighting fire with fire. For me, he didn’t dodge a fight, he just tried to change the dynamics of what the fight was. There’s no shame in him trying to win this battle through brain rather than brawn.
We came out of it much better than most have so far, albeit not with the result any of us wanted, which ultimately is why I think he has to face some measured criticism.
I think it’s a misjudgement to say that he surrendered or didn’t want to win - if the players had applied themselves correctly, we might have got something out of it.
I know I’m in the minority here but I think it’s delusional to think this current Chelsea are any kind of match to this City, on or off the pitch at the moment.
I'm with you on this one. Kante was a huge loss because his burst of pace when winning the ball often sets up lighning attacks...that was not the case with DD and Cesc and we became bogged down. It wasn't a pretty performance but it was one that very nearly got us a point right at the death. It's quite simple to me, Conte doesn't have a side capable of going punch for punch with this Man City side...especially without Kante. Sometimes you have to grind it out but when it fails you have to expect flak.
My main gripe...Conte had virtually 45 minutes to at least look for a way forward. Bringing Morata on in the 89th minute was a real kick in the bollocks to the supporters. It was an absolute joke of a substitution.
It’s up to a manager to set up a team to give themselves the best chance to get a positive result. Conte did that and I would have done the same (albeit with a striker up there, with Hazard and Willian playing off Giroud). It didn’t work and he didn’t do enough during the game to change it, so he gets criticised for that and that’s fair enough. I think however that the mauling he’s got from fans and pundits is OTT and talk of fans getting refunds and Conte being sacked shows how ridiculous this game has become.
There are extenuating circumstances behind all of this. I don’t think Conte should have shoulder the blame for players not stringing passes together and most of all, the club’s transfer policy. For me, it’s not the manager who waved the white flag against City, it’s the club who’s decided they don’t want to mix it with the very biggest in Europe anymore (whereas City are doing the complete opposite). To expect us to still compete toe to toe with them on the pitch is hugely unfair on a great coach. I’m sure he wishes he could have taken on Pep from an equal footing and it must be seriously grating that he feels he can’t do that. I share his frustration and anger.
I also think its too easy to say I'd play Giroud or Morata...we're not in a position to see what a manager sees in training and their general fitness...mental health etc.
I would assume if a manager is seeing special work at Cobham then you come in from the cold.